• Kalcifer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    6·
    1 year ago

    Signal isn’t federated [1][2][3.1]; it’s decentralized [1][2][3.2]. Though, for all practical purposes, I would generally argue that it’s centralized.

    References
    1. Signal-Server. signalapp. Github. Published: 2025-01-31T15:34:14.000Z. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:24Z. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server.
      • This is the source code for the server that Signal uses.
    2. “Signal (software)”. Wikipedia. Published: 2025-01-06T09:34Z. Accessed: 2025-02-1T09:30Z. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software).
      • ¶“Architecture”. ¶“Servers”.

        Signal relies on centralized servers that are maintained by Signal Messenger. In addition to routing Signal’s messages, the servers also facilitate the discovery of contacts who are also registered Signal users and the automatic exchange of users’ public keys. […]

    3. “Reflections: The ecosystem is moving”. moxie0. Signal Blog. Published: 2016-05-10. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:40Z. https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/.
      1. ¶5. to ¶“Stuck in time”. ¶3-6

        One of the controversial things we did with Signal early on was to build it as an unfederated service. Nothing about any of the protocols we’ve developed requires centralization; it’s entirely possible to build a federated Signal Protocol-based messenger, but I no longer believe that it is possible to build a competitive federated messenger at all. […] [interoperable protocols] [have] taken us pretty far, but it’s undeniable that once you federate your protocol, it becomes very difficult to make changes. And right now, at the application level, things that stand still don’t fare very well in a world where the ecosystem is moving. […] Early on, I thought we’d federate Signal once its velocity had subsided. Now I realize that things will probably never slow down, and if anything the velocity of the entire landscape seems to be steadily increasing.

      2. ¶“Stuck in time”. “Federation and control”. ¶6.

        An open source infrastructure for a centralized network now provides almost the same level of control as federated protocols, without giving up the ability to adapt. If a centralized provider with an open source infrastructure ever makes horrible changes, those that disagree have the software they need to run their own alternative instead. It may not be as beautiful as federation, but at this point it seems that it will have to do.

    • cog@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      4·
      1 year ago

      Yeah. I love Signal but it doesn’t belong in that list. Dansup (creator of loops and pixelfed) is apparently working on “Sup” that will be a decentralized alternative to whatsapp.

      • Retro-Hax@feddit.orgEnglish
        2·
        6 days ago

        100% agree >.> Like as much as i love (and trust) Signal i would never call it the same as Mastodon or Matrix for Example >.> This was like comparing Appels and Oranges -.-

        • cog@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          3·
          1 year ago

          Yeah… I’m bit afraid of “kbin Ernest Effect” (not sure what a proper term is) where personal issues pile up and the sole head developer just disappears.

          Haven’t followed dansup much but from what I understand he is much more open to pull requests and listening to the community, but time will tell. Right now I appreciate and love his effort, giving, and the impact on fediverse he is brining.

          The kickstarter was a good idea.

        • cog@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          0·
          1 year ago

          There isn’t much information about “Sup”, but if I had to guess it could be that dansup is making sup app with XMPP(rotocol) as the messaging protocol.

          • poVoq@slrpnk.netEnglish
            0·
            1 year ago

            Originally it was supposed to be ActivityPub based, but recently they posted something about it being for XMPP, Matrix and IRC as well 🤷‍♂️ Maybe they decided to fork Pidgin 😂

            IMHO Sup. isn’t going to happen. They will have their hands more than full with Pixelfed’s new popularity and maybe Loops.

            • cog@sopuli.xyzEnglish
              1·
              1 year ago

              Oh! didn’t know that, I thought activitypub can’t be used for secure messaging. Lol really hope its XMPP!

              Yeah I didn’t take it that seriously when it was announced right now. Just hope pixelfed stays afloat amidst the user flood and hope he can publish loops as open source soon!

      • Kalcifer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0·
        1 year ago

        it’s decentralized

        No it’s not. From literally your own comment:

        Signal relies on centralized servers

        I was using “decentralized” to mean that there isn’t centralized control over ownership of the service in general — eg anyone can spin up their own server (impractical, imo, pushing it more towards being centralized) and people can use it (making it decentralized, imo (Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do think my usage of the term is appropriate in this way.)), but people who use that server can only communicate with that server (making it not federated). But yes it could still be said to be centralized in that it operates on a client-server model [1].

        This is more an argument of definitions, though. I’m not trying to claim anything in bad faith.

        References
        1. Signal-Server. signalapp. Github. Published: 2025-01-31T15:34:14.000Z. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:24Z. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server.
          • This is the source code for the server that Signal uses.
        • amzd@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          That’s just open source, not decentralized. I can’t find a definition of decentralization that would even make it vague. From Wikipedia:

          Decentralization is the process by which the activities of an organization, particularly those related to planning and decision-making, are distributed or delegated away from a central, authoritative location or group and given to smaller factions within it.

          Signal has a central authoritative server and to use it with any other server you have to modify the source code.

      • Kalcifer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        My comment wasn’t protesting the use of Signal; it was rather clarifying the misinformation in OP’s post — ie misinformation that Signal is a federated service.

  • Undaunted@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    5·
    1 year ago

    Unfortunately, the switch from YouTube to PeerTube has not worked for me so far. I can’t find a decent instance (not full of right-wing/conspiracy content) with interesting stuff that also allows me to make an account.

    • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      Yes finding the right instance on peertube is a nightmare — and also the general lack of quality content, or subtitling, which makes it as good as useless for deaf people like me.

  • Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Great graphic! The only things I use on this list are reddit and youtube. Trying peertube now. I’m confused about whatsapp and facebook messenger - don’t people just use the texting app that comes with their phone?

  • iwasnormalonce@lemm.eeEnglish
    1·
    11 months ago

    Can anyone send me a link to the android version of loops.video, I can’t see it on the play store

  • Lyre@lemmy.caEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Anyone know if loops has a good app out, or if there’s one in the works thats coming out soon?

    • Log in | Sign up@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      Absolutely, signal isn’t federated, but I don’t want my messaging app to be federated. I want my social media to be federated. Lemmy is good because it’s open. Signal is good because it’s shut.

      • acockworkorange@mander.xyzEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        the author literally picked random projects from github tagged as matrix, without considering their prevalence or whether they are actually maintained etc.

        if you actually look at % of impacted clients, it’s tiny.

        meanwhile, it is very unclear that any sidechannel attack on a libolm based client is practical over the network (which is why we didn’t fix this years ago). After all, the limited primitives are commented on in the readme and https://github.com/matrix-org/olm/issues/3 since day 1.

        From your link.

    • ubergeek@lemmy.todayEnglish
      11·
      1 year ago

      Element/matrix aren’t part of the fediverse, either. It doesn’t speak AP.

      • namingthingsiseasy@programming.devEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        Are we claiming now that Activity Pub is the only protocol that we can use for the fediverse? I think XMPP is roughly 30 years old at this point, and I’m pretty sure Activity Pub is much younger than that. I could be wrong though.

        But regardless, I don’t see why Activity Pub has to be the only protocol we accept to be considered a part of the fediverse. It’s not even like different AP implementations talk to each other all that well. My understanding is that Mastodon doesn’t federate that well with Lemmy, and I haven’t seen Loops or Pixelfed on Lemmy yet either.

        I’d be happy to be corrected on any of this though, I haven’t looked too closely into exactly how AP works or how it’s supposed to interoperate with different applications.

      • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.caEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        I’d like to argue that using AP is an inconsistent rule for membership. For example, Diaspora has been considered to be part of the fediverse from early on, but it doesn’t use AP.

        I don’t really know where to draw the line. AP simply isn’t suitable for some applications, but it makes sense to include it for branding

  • mergingapples@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    Ok, downloaded peertube (because to hell with Google and YouTube) looked around… Um, is there not too much to look at right now? Are the people I normally watch on YouTube unable to be seen on peertube? Don’t get me wrong, all about decentralized everything but if the people I like aren’t there I’m feeling a bit up a creek.

    Or, more likely, am I missing something? Forgive me, please, I am rather new to this concept and how to work the federations and such.

  • TehWorld@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 year ago

    I’ve been on Signal for a while now. Have a bunch of groups but iMessage works with everyone.

    It’s been a year and a half here on Lemmy. I still spend a lot of time on Reddit, but won’t comment there anymore.

    I don’t WANT a Twitter replacement as it’s really only for celebs and idgaf.

    I actually see enough value to pay for YT premium (kids complain incessantly about ads).

    Friendica doesn’t seem to have an iOS app, and there’s a critical mass issue with wanting to connect with people that I know in real life.

    I’m trying to get my Pixelfed feed to be with checking, and trying to be a regular poster, but it’s still REALLY sparse, and none of these offer the endless meme-video-clip scroll that my wife will have to have before switching away from Insta.