?! And you’re a pro?! A professional gooner?!

Alright, very funny.

I feel this is very The Magnus Archives-coded.

That horse is absolutely clueless regarding the latest technological developments… How lucky

I do have to say I didn’t consider that you might actually like wearing suits.

That’s literally the whole point.

Other individuals yes, but not being part of a group.

This is more of a philosophical discussion, I guess.

However, maybe you are in the US?

Nope, I’m European. I’m also much further left than Bernie Sanders, and yeah I definitely see the lack of suits there. It might be a rejection of formality, but I don’t know… I’d be much more inclined to say that it is a rejection of the establishment and a way to approximate themselves with everyday people, by dressing more like the average person dresses on a daily basis.

The point of the dress-code in politics, at least partially, is to signal that you are meant to be there. It’s supposed to help you be taken more seriously – this goes in tandem with that thing I said about the suit looking intentional. It also equalizes everyone; By looking similar, you can focus on what they have to say and less on what they’re wearing (“Oh look, that politician is wearing a cool shirt… Wait, what did they just say?”).

Not wearing a suit definitely brings some eyes your way, which is also a reason some politicians do it – like Zelenskyy, who’s not wearing suits because of the war, but also because it stands out and forces people to think about the war. Still, as you might’ve seen, the White House was rather upset with him over this; Not wearing a suit signals that you don’t belong there, and many people (American fascists or not), are gonna see someone that can’t even wear a suit (“Can’t even put on a suit, how’re they gonna steer a country?”).

The suit has meaning. It’s communication.

By having rules, this communication becomes clearer. Every deviation matters and is noticed.

Here in Europe it’s definitely often associated with “old money”.

I mean, I just don’t see this at all. We might be from different countries (probably), but I just don’t get that association at all. It’s a suit. It’s the uniform of business, as you said, but… Yeah, it’s formal. It says special event, or lawyer, or something. Then again, it depends on the suit, so I wouldn’t even go that far, frankly. Some suits just say “fashion”. That’s my opinion, anyway. Maybe it’s because over here we have suits as traditional academic wear… Some pictures follow.

Oh yes I’m AuDHD so yeah I am definitely neurodivergent.

Yeah you definitely sounded like it, but again I just didn’t want to do some virtual-armchair-diagnosis or anything LOL I’ve heard many neurodivergent people have trouble with clothes and formal events. I have some pretty bad social anxiety, so I relate to that, to a certain extent.

It’s not the people per se but the events and what they represent.

Well, yeah, but those are just shitty events for shitty things. The only event you listed that I would maybe debate was the restaurant, but then again I haven’t ever stepped foot in a restaurant with a dress-code.

Well I see they are a different colour but they are essentially the same to me.

The colour is different, the fit is completely different, the shirt is different, and yeah the tie is different (the 2nd suit is wearing a camp collar shirt, which is actually explicitly informal). I mean, pretty much the only thing they have in common is that the pants match the blazer, meaning, they’re both suits.

Is this the same as well?

To me, they’re clearly all completely different, quite frankly. They’re all suits, but very different suits for very different occasions.

Well, whatever, I guess.

I have a very negative aura about myself.

As a progressive I don’t align with that.

I don’t like this very much… I’m a progressive, and I like both suits and formal situations!

I definitely think there’s some issues with a lot of the western notions of formality, with it being very Euro-centric and sometimes oozing with pretentious classism, often racism and misogyny, but that’s not an issue with formality – it’s an issue of colonialism, patriarchy, and white supremacy. In my opinion, anyway. It’s a matter of being inclusive and progressive everywhere, regardless of formality and dress-code.

Also, humans are social creatures. If you’re a progressive, surely you care about other people. I certainly do! Navigating formal situations is, in a way, a test to see how well you can fit in, yes, because fitting in matters; It matters how much you can relate to others; It matters that you can engage with other people on their terms; It matters that you can show that you understand what others value and can accommodate it; It matters that you can sacrifice some of your expressive liberty, for a short while, so you can be part of a group or a moment.

I’m not saying formality is some requisite of social life or anything, but I am saying that that stark rejection of it sounds antisocial, let me tell you. Well, to be totally fair it sounds neuro-divergent, more than anything, but I don’t mean to diagnose you either. You wouldn’t attend a friend’s wedding because it’s formal? I guess you just aren’t friends with people that would want you to wear a suit to their wedding. Whatever, feel free to disregard the last couple of sentences.

I like people being very diverse.

Also, if your idea of diversity is “no dress-code”, frankly, that’s ridiculous. I admit that there’s, as I mentioned, quite a bit of classism and misogyny and racism in some groups, and those groups do end up being associated with more formal attire – I get that – but to blame that on suits or formality is ridiculous! Why are you talking like dress-code means people aren’t very diverse?!

I really do take offense to that position. The range of people that wear suits or go to formal occasions is extremely diverse, and to imply otherwise is beyond reductive.

A suit is like the uniform of the business world.

So? I don’t care. Why would anyone care? I thought you were about wearing what you love and expressing yourself, why does it matter that businessman wear it too? I think corduroy pants look nice, so I wear corduroy pants. I think funky ties look nice, so I wear funky ties. If I think a suit looks nice, I’m gonna wear the suit – CEO be damned!

Very boring and non-expressive.

And that’s just false. I mean, did you even see the pictures I showed? Do they look the same to you? Do they express the same things?!

If you think they do, I don’t think there’s anything worth saying to you on this subject.

:D

so it all automatically matches because it all has a certain vibe to it.

Yeah that’s a similar concept! Suits are also about fabric and fit, but you’re basically halfway there already, quite frankly.

Well, it’s not the P that’s read like an F, it’s PH that’s read like an F. If it was jpheg it would be read jfeg.

Hilarious

Yeah, maybe… I’m on the same timezone as London, though. Midnight isn’t that late, I guess.

As a colourblind individual… What?

At the end of the day, it’s fashion – you may just not like them. It’s OK not to like suits, I’m not trying to push anyone here to like suits, I’m just saying they’re not stupid.

I mean, why wear chinos? Why wear blazers? It’s not like they’re “superior” garments or something, they just… Look nice! That’s it!

Suits are about showing that you care about what you wear and how you present yourself, because it’s intentional – you’re wearing matching pants and blazer, maybe even a matching vest on top of that – and that says that you meant to wear that, and didn’t just happen to wear it because you liked those pants and you liked that shirt. A suit is an outfit that looks like it’s meant to be worn as a single item: a suit. Not pants and a blazer; A suit!

That’s what makes it “special”, but it’s really just clothes.

Maybe when you think of “suit” you think of something like this:

But this is also a suit:

Do they look the same to you? Is it the same vibe? Do you think they fit the same and are equally as comfortable?!

HELL NO!! I wouldn’t want to wear that first skinny ass suit a single day in my life, but I think the second more relaxed suit looks very comfortable and reasonable, and something I could wear around without a problem.

Even if you still think both suits look bad, I hope this at least sheds some light on how not all suits are the same. What they do have in common is a cohesion that says that you meant to wear An Outfit^TM, as opposed to putting on some pants and a jacket. Well, and they’re a little more formal than a t-shirt and jeans, too.

Something that I think might’ve also been a problem for you when suits were pushed on you was that maybe you weren’t wearing very good materials or very well-made stuff. I don’t mean to say that I know your upbringing, but odds are you were forced to wear poorly-made polyester clothes that draped weird, didn’t breathe well, and felt weird on the skin – that’s not exactly a good way to get a kid (or anyone, frankly…) to enjoy wearing anything.

I, at least, for the longest time, hated wearing collared shirts! Why? Not sure, but I assume a reason for that was that I was forced to wear them to church growing up and I hated both church and being forced to wear anything! Also, I was wearing shitty shirts that felt horrible to wear, regardless of occasion. Maybe you went through something similar.

All the animals serve some purpose here, and I should at least take a minute to try and appreciate them it’s my take.

100% agree!

I have love for every living being – we all serve a purpose, we all mean something to mother Earth, and we are part of the same whole. That’s the more philosophical side of it, I guess, but scientifically it’s also interesting to learn about different animals (or any being, really… Mushrooms are really cool).

That being said, for a few of our fellow Earthlings… I’d rather they perform their very incredible, fascinating, and purposeful activities away from me… I am working on this feeling, though. I used to be terrified of spiders, but I’ve gotten much better about it over the years, actually.

OK, great owl pic but… The other pic… Not quite my style! Still, glad you got to do it :D Halloween is coming soon.

Suits aren’t stupid! There’s casual suits, for one, and really there’s suits for basically every occasion… There’s so many different fits, different materials, different cuts…

That’s just such a violent generalization, I simply can’t stand by and say nothing.

Maybe the idea you have of a “suit”, in your mind, sucks balls, but suits certainly don’t suck balls.

What makes the NYT so good? And why is The Guardian so important?

You’d probably make a mess… But sure, I guess.

That’s fair. Will I die from microplastic exposure? Perchance.