https://feddit.org/post/12851368
https://feddit.org/post/12529640
due to the previously communicated defamation campaign by quokk.au, which was later followed by defederation by them after we requested them to remove their censure, we have now defederated from quokk.au.
One of the triggers for the current debate is this post, which followed the removal of a comment comparing National Socialism with the current situation in Israel, which can be considered a trivialization of National Socialism. Such statements can, among other things, lead to imprisonment. Among other things, the post claimed that the removal had a Zionist motive, an accusation that should always be supported by appropriate evidence and prior to which it should be ruled out that there are alternative explanations.
We will not be removing every comment that goes even remotely in this direction, but we reserve the right to permanently ban users from feddit.org who make unfounded accusations, such as labeling our instance, admins, moderators, or other users as Nazis or Zionists, without substantial supporting arguments. This is especially the case when this is recurring behavior and not an isolated incident.
If this censure by quokk.au is not withdrawn in a timely manner, we will defederate quokk.au from our side for these unsubstantiated and untrue accusations.
Sure the admin may be unhinged, but removing a post about making a distinction between anti-zionism and anti-semitism?
I got some translation from their post on it about how they can’t tolerate “accusations” of being called zionists? What’s wrong with accusations? Removing the comment is sufficient evidence for it.
Also there’s something there about such discussions being precarious because it’s against some german,swiss laws? Can someone who knows german explain it a little better? Because it seems like “We will not discuss this because we don’t like this discussion”
Germany has laws against minimising the atrocities of the holocaust. The feddit.org admins have a personal opinion that likening the nakba to the holocaust minimises the holocaust, which would make it illegal.
Israel use same methods as nazis and the holocust. Banning comparison minimize the genocide is gaza
Is advocating for palestinians right to resistance, condemning the ideology that created the whole conflicts, banning our only real option of boycott a minimization of the holocust?
They don’t remove posts or comments that do that. I am quite active on feddit and the general consensus on that instance is pretty pro-palestine. The vast majority of anti-zionist posts do not get removed.
What they (sometimes) remove though is comparions between nazi-germany and Zionism. The admins on that instance argued that doing this may breach German laws, so they decided to remove some of the most notorious comments about that.
They removed posts because they fear they may violate german law. Also, feddit admins did not defederate from quokk.au because of the accusations - it is because one of their admins harrassed a feddit admin (calling them Nazi scum, wished death upon them - see my above comment) - then defederated quokk.au from feddit because of “Zionism” (which is so dumb if you ask me) - and then feddit defederated quokk.au back
Holocaust denial/inversion/relativization is something (for good reason) illegal in Germany. Neonazis have been doing this for a long time and obviously it needs to be illegal. When it comes to Israel’s war crimes obviously there is more nuance to this but there are boundaries too. As a german leftist I can say that a lot of us are more careful when it comes to language around the issue. There is a balancing act we have to do and I wish people outside could respect that.
In all honesty, this is how I feel about it. I am pro-palestine in pretty much every regard, but I have limits with the language I use. I recognize Zionism as the result of the jewish struggle of the 19th and 20th century. It does not mean I like it or I see it as an ideology that can bring about peace in the region. It also does not mean I justify any of the crimes Israel’s government is doing. But it does mean that I don’t compare it to Nazism. I don’t like this discussion because it leads nowhere. Invalidating/inverting/relativizing the jewish struggle does nothing for the Palestinians and I feel annoyed that so many internet leftists insist so much on doing that. If there is no space for nuance, I am not interested in discussion
Should Lemmy.world apply the same standards as they are hosted at Hetzner?
I am too much of an anarchist to care about laws, but I believe any instance should moderate against hatred and strive for a healthy environment where constructive discourse is encouraged and unconstructive/toxic discourse is mitigated. That counts for racism, homophobia, and also for antisemitism or dehumanization of Palestinians.
Now, there are difficult questions about moderation that I am glad I don’t have to answer. But I can confidently say that the language that quokk.au admin used has no place in a healthy online community and it is fair it’s banned from it.
Doesn’t really answer my question.
If there is a legal obligation in Germany to have a policy similar to what feddit.org has, Lemmy.world and other instances using Hetzner should implement it.
If not, then they shouldn’t, and then feddit.org shouldn’t use the legal argument.
Now it’s kind of an ambiguous situation where it’s not clear what the legal obligation actually is.