I don’t think there’s a group more doomed to fail than people who try to convince others to hate AI art. It just keeps getting better because that’s the nature of progress but their arguments stay the same. Where do we think that’s obviously, without a doubt, bitch please, going to end up?
We’re probably all looking at AI “art” constantly without realising it. It’s blended into everything now because the economics of it are so appealing to anyone with overheads and profit margins. There’s no point fighting it.
It’s like blue cheese. Just cos I hate the stuff, I’m not gonna try and stop people making or consuming it. Although… ew… I mean why?? It’s mold inside curdled milk! But to each their own I guess.
You’re really determined not to make this a light, fun conversation aren’t you… I’ll be honest with you, I get how you feel but don’t worry. Yes, people are fascinated by it cos it’s new, but they will soon get tired of it, if it doesn’t do anything significantly different soon. You won’t have long to wait before it doesn’t feel like AI artwork is being forced into everything, because once the novelty’s gone it’ll just fade away. It’s just a tool at the end of the day. Everyone will get over it and move on.
Dude telling apart AI art is becoming the easiest shit ever. And it just becomes easier as the visual codes of AI art become more mainstream. And just wait as it clogs the internet and people become more tired of it.
A sunset and a flower are also natural phenomena. Ai art is a privatized vision of culture created by people uninterested in human culture. Just take a look at civitai.
The odd thing about “Art”, AFAICS, is that no one’s ever really agreed on what it is. You’ve got your Renaissance period that’s all “precision” and “beauty”. Then here comes post-modernism where you could tape a banana to a wall and call it a masterpiece. Every era’s different and it feels like “Art” is just whatever enough people decide it is. Then the next generation comes along and changes everything again. Feels like AI “Art” is just the next stage. It’s kinda fascinating because what happens if artistic skill suddenly has nothing to do with it and it’s all about how creative you can be with a prompt? Suddenly millions of people can join in and yeah, most of it will be painful slop, but then suddenly it won’t be and that’s pretty exciting I think.
Yep, and anyone that feels like it can be an artist, which is actually really really good IMO. Like a next step in our society.
I just hope those tax avoiding schemes like the banana and the CIA involvement could go and die somewhere (CIA has maybe stopped but what do I know). It’s so blatantly fake and decredibilise the whole art movement IMO.
writing a prompt does not equal being an artist. Just that you got an image out of an llm vending machine. Nobody sees the person, they see “stable diffusion”
Totally. But maybe one day you’ll spend 6 months prompting a fantastic movie, will that be art?
SugarCatDestroyer posted a good idea for what art is IMO. It sure isn’t 5 minutes of prompting an image generator, but don’t throw it all under the bus.
The thing is I don’t think a movie that was spent 6 months or 6 hours is worth watching. Because art has always has been about the human element in the development of culture. “prompting” is just tossing a coin into a vending machine made to attempt to privatize and control the free flow of that culture. “Generative art” is not a tool, it’s a medium. A medium made for corporations to completely control and regulate subjectivity. So yeah this medium, I’d throw it on the dumpster fire.
Artists does not necessarily have an idea, and even if they do, how are you getting to know that idea is? Like abstract art that has to be explained to be appreciated?
I’d argue it’s the creative process, but it’s a tricky question.
Ideas can be conceptual but they can also be visual. A visual idea can be using lines in a certain way, or having a personal eye of design. You cannot prompt that sort of thing, only steal “styles” Ai art is a device to allow people who don’t want to think about the nuances of language to larp and be tourists in the acct of creation. As if we didn’t have enough of that with nepotism in media.
Concepts are maybe in there in real art but if it’s only concept, I’d argue it’s more of a happening or something else, at least as creation of art goes. It’s like beautiful design, that’s not art, its design (with exceptions like Giger I guess).
But concepts can also be visual. Traditional abstract art is built on the idea that the visual construction of a piece can be the concept itself. The idea that every image needs a concept comes from the postmodernist point of view and it’s obsession with language, and aside from the fact that we’ve been moving away from the postmodern mindset since the late aughts, there are still residual manifestations of traditional abstract art in contemporary practice.
What is the difference between design for art sake and commercial design? The lack of utility. I feel this is the reason why most westerners cannot wrap their head around The idea of design or beauty for beauty’s sake: The contemporary western mind is obsessed with utilitarianism, even in art. But many proponents of abstract art talked about their craft as making visual music: The point is not to make a story about the lines the points or the edges. like Kandinsky would say; But to make the visual impact the enjoyment itself. Just like listening to a good melody.
Generated images and video loose all that nuance because translating visual language to written language is like programming with a drumkit: Images music and even movies, are not merely conceptualized. That is Anarcho-capitalist mindset; The drive to kill community and anonymize human action; Images, music and movies are valuable because there was a human procedure to make them, that correspond with our cultural and biologic realities. The art of an era is a map of the subjectivity that humans manufactured for that era, this subjectivity is not just stories but the images, sounds and feelings of this era. Letting The medium of generative art take over that act flattens that map into a cultural products. It is the rise of completely manufactured artificial subjectivity.
Lot to take in here! I think we’re basically on the same page, with some nuances (because we’re humans from different places!). For example when I said design, I thought of the paintings that are made to go well with someones kitchen and staircase. Not a beautiful art nouveau coffee machine. I’d love living in a world where art > utility, so I moved to france, and at least we have all the beautiful buildings to boot.
I think lots of people get stuck in the rat race, and forget about beauty, but at least we got our culinary culture and rich history as a backdrop. In hardcore capitalist countries like the USA I guess not so much, where form or function are not questions but an afterthought of the commercial viability, and even that seems to be crushed by predatory market practices.
Anarco capitalism, is that “ancaps”? I always thought they were young angry people who never needed to rely on anyone except themselves (yet) and their mom, and I guess a bit low empathy and a black and white world view.
I hate the part where everything has to be monetised, I’d love a space where everyone could just share everything they do or like.
In my opinion, art is an idea of a certain person that he expressed from his heart from beginning to end, making do with the limitations of his capabilities without using AI at all.
This commands respect, not AI that exists only to replace humans and not to help them.
I don’t know if you’ll be interested, but I’ll probably tell you -> a person also can’t create something that he’s never seen or felt. But unlike AI, each person has their own life experience, philosophy, etc., which AI does not have, since it is only a digital copy of the human brain, that is, AI is essentially like a psychopath who does not feel but imitates.
Nice one liner 😉 but that’s not what’s happening here. AI has absolutely improved my life and the lives of so many people I know. It would literally take too long to describe all ways that “progress” has definitely happened thanks to AI for me.
its the reason why I despise AI music so much. it sounds like its missing effort and energy put into creating something that’s fun to listen to over and over again. it sounds so… empty.
technically, its impressive it can even be done! but thats the start and end of the positives when it comes to AI media generation
It looks like they are desperately trying to replace humans with AI at any cost. The situation is similar with humanoid robots -> they are essentially of little use, but are ideal slaves who cannot disobey orders, and this is a dream for the elite.
Is an anti-human ideology. Fitting for a group of people who think they are above everything and that are unable to relate or connect with anyone. Simple solution: Make a matrix throw them in it, let them live their solipsistic fantasies and use em’ as batteries! They don’t want anything to do with the world anyway.
I don’t think there’s a group more doomed to fail than people who try to convince others to hate AI art. It just keeps getting better because that’s the nature of progress but their arguments stay the same. Where do we think that’s obviously, without a doubt, bitch please, going to end up?
why the fuck would i want to look at a piece of “art” that no fucker could be bothered to make in the first place???
We’re probably all looking at AI “art” constantly without realising it. It’s blended into everything now because the economics of it are so appealing to anyone with overheads and profit margins. There’s no point fighting it.
It’s like blue cheese. Just cos I hate the stuff, I’m not gonna try and stop people making or consuming it. Although… ew… I mean why?? It’s mold inside curdled milk! But to each their own I guess.
Blue cheese isn’t getting shoved into everything and ruining it while using a massive amount of energy, frequently not renewable.
If blue cheese was jammed into everything you ate that would be annoying and something to oppose, right?
But it is shoved into everything. My friends are constantly telling me to try it. There’s even a blue cheese spread you can get and it’s… grey… 🤢
Are your friends pouring it onto your food against your wishes?
You’re really determined not to make this a light, fun conversation aren’t you… I’ll be honest with you, I get how you feel but don’t worry. Yes, people are fascinated by it cos it’s new, but they will soon get tired of it, if it doesn’t do anything significantly different soon. You won’t have long to wait before it doesn’t feel like AI artwork is being forced into everything, because once the novelty’s gone it’ll just fade away. It’s just a tool at the end of the day. Everyone will get over it and move on.
Thats because it’s bleu cheese, blue cheese is just an americanization.
Dude telling apart AI art is becoming the easiest shit ever. And it just becomes easier as the visual codes of AI art become more mainstream. And just wait as it clogs the internet and people become more tired of it.
You are correct IMO, except it’s not art.
Can a sunset be beautiful? Might a flower be stunning? Yes, but it’s not art.
People think art is like something that looks nice or that sells for lots of money. They are wrong, IMO.
In essence, true art is created by the soul and pain of its creator, as well as his views on the world, etc.
Yeah that’s the spirit I can get behind!
A sunset and a flower are also natural phenomena. Ai art is a privatized vision of culture created by people uninterested in human culture. Just take a look at civitai.
I don’t know what you want to say here, I tend to think you’re mostly right?
The odd thing about “Art”, AFAICS, is that no one’s ever really agreed on what it is. You’ve got your Renaissance period that’s all “precision” and “beauty”. Then here comes post-modernism where you could tape a banana to a wall and call it a masterpiece. Every era’s different and it feels like “Art” is just whatever enough people decide it is. Then the next generation comes along and changes everything again. Feels like AI “Art” is just the next stage. It’s kinda fascinating because what happens if artistic skill suddenly has nothing to do with it and it’s all about how creative you can be with a prompt? Suddenly millions of people can join in and yeah, most of it will be painful slop, but then suddenly it won’t be and that’s pretty exciting I think.
Yep, and anyone that feels like it can be an artist, which is actually really really good IMO. Like a next step in our society.
I just hope those tax avoiding schemes like the banana and the CIA involvement could go and die somewhere (CIA has maybe stopped but what do I know). It’s so blatantly fake and decredibilise the whole art movement IMO.
writing a prompt does not equal being an artist. Just that you got an image out of an llm vending machine. Nobody sees the person, they see “stable diffusion”
Totally. But maybe one day you’ll spend 6 months prompting a fantastic movie, will that be art?
SugarCatDestroyer posted a good idea for what art is IMO. It sure isn’t 5 minutes of prompting an image generator, but don’t throw it all under the bus.
The thing is I don’t think a movie that was spent 6 months or 6 hours is worth watching. Because art has always has been about the human element in the development of culture. “prompting” is just tossing a coin into a vending machine made to attempt to privatize and control the free flow of that culture. “Generative art” is not a tool, it’s a medium. A medium made for corporations to completely control and regulate subjectivity. So yeah this medium, I’d throw it on the dumpster fire.
Well, it depends on the person himself.
Yeah art is more the idea than the looks
Artists does not necessarily have an idea, and even if they do, how are you getting to know that idea is? Like abstract art that has to be explained to be appreciated?
I’d argue it’s the creative process, but it’s a tricky question.
Ideas can be conceptual but they can also be visual. A visual idea can be using lines in a certain way, or having a personal eye of design. You cannot prompt that sort of thing, only steal “styles” Ai art is a device to allow people who don’t want to think about the nuances of language to larp and be tourists in the acct of creation. As if we didn’t have enough of that with nepotism in media.
Concepts are maybe in there in real art but if it’s only concept, I’d argue it’s more of a happening or something else, at least as creation of art goes. It’s like beautiful design, that’s not art, its design (with exceptions like Giger I guess).
For prompting shit, yeah totally.
But concepts can also be visual. Traditional abstract art is built on the idea that the visual construction of a piece can be the concept itself. The idea that every image needs a concept comes from the postmodernist point of view and it’s obsession with language, and aside from the fact that we’ve been moving away from the postmodern mindset since the late aughts, there are still residual manifestations of traditional abstract art in contemporary practice.
What is the difference between design for art sake and commercial design? The lack of utility. I feel this is the reason why most westerners cannot wrap their head around The idea of design or beauty for beauty’s sake: The contemporary western mind is obsessed with utilitarianism, even in art. But many proponents of abstract art talked about their craft as making visual music: The point is not to make a story about the lines the points or the edges. like Kandinsky would say; But to make the visual impact the enjoyment itself. Just like listening to a good melody.
Generated images and video loose all that nuance because translating visual language to written language is like programming with a drumkit: Images music and even movies, are not merely conceptualized. That is Anarcho-capitalist mindset; The drive to kill community and anonymize human action; Images, music and movies are valuable because there was a human procedure to make them, that correspond with our cultural and biologic realities. The art of an era is a map of the subjectivity that humans manufactured for that era, this subjectivity is not just stories but the images, sounds and feelings of this era. Letting The medium of generative art take over that act flattens that map into a cultural products. It is the rise of completely manufactured artificial subjectivity.
Fantastic.
Lot to take in here! I think we’re basically on the same page, with some nuances (because we’re humans from different places!). For example when I said design, I thought of the paintings that are made to go well with someones kitchen and staircase. Not a beautiful art nouveau coffee machine. I’d love living in a world where art > utility, so I moved to france, and at least we have all the beautiful buildings to boot.
I think lots of people get stuck in the rat race, and forget about beauty, but at least we got our culinary culture and rich history as a backdrop. In hardcore capitalist countries like the USA I guess not so much, where form or function are not questions but an afterthought of the commercial viability, and even that seems to be crushed by predatory market practices.
Anarco capitalism, is that “ancaps”? I always thought they were young angry people who never needed to rely on anyone except themselves (yet) and their mom, and I guess a bit low empathy and a black and white world view.
I hate the part where everything has to be monetised, I’d love a space where everyone could just share everything they do or like.
Cheers
In my opinion, art is an idea of a certain person that he expressed from his heart from beginning to end, making do with the limitations of his capabilities without using AI at all.
This commands respect, not AI that exists only to replace humans and not to help them.
So art is about the prompt?
Kinda. But the issue is with AI training. It cannot create a totally new thing. It can only create similar atuff to what it knows.
So fanart of existing works isn’t actually art because it’s just copying another’s idea.
I don’t know if you’ll be interested, but I’ll probably tell you -> a person also can’t create something that he’s never seen or felt. But unlike AI, each person has their own life experience, philosophy, etc., which AI does not have, since it is only a digital copy of the human brain, that is, AI is essentially like a psychopath who does not feel but imitates.
So psychopaths aren’t human.
But they rule the world, which they themselves destroy, becoming kings of the desert in which they will die of exhaustion.
If you literally copy it exactly then not really.
How AI is progress?
Did you used to be able to have a conversation with a machine before? No. Can you now? Yes. So… Progress.
Confusing change for progress is a mistake.
Nice one liner 😉 but that’s not what’s happening here. AI has absolutely improved my life and the lives of so many people I know. It would literally take too long to describe all ways that “progress” has definitely happened thanks to AI for me.
Without craftwork, any content is hollow, meaningless, and not art.
its the reason why I despise AI music so much. it sounds like its missing effort and energy put into creating something that’s fun to listen to over and over again. it sounds so… empty.
technically, its impressive it can even be done! but thats the start and end of the positives when it comes to AI media generation
If Ai art is progress, than why most of it looks like artificial shit, or is just the techbro brand of very degrading porn?
It looks like they are desperately trying to replace humans with AI at any cost. The situation is similar with humanoid robots -> they are essentially of little use, but are ideal slaves who cannot disobey orders, and this is a dream for the elite.
Is an anti-human ideology. Fitting for a group of people who think they are above everything and that are unable to relate or connect with anyone. Simple solution: Make a matrix throw them in it, let them live their solipsistic fantasies and use em’ as batteries! They don’t want anything to do with the world anyway.